Curse

Lorekeeper · Apr 09, 2008, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Heres my contribution

Assassin

*Assassin's Remedy - increase recharge to 30s or change to remove conditions if you successful hit with an attack skill or attack.
*Way of the Master - increase cost to 10e.
*Dark Apostasy - increase recharge to 20s.
*Shadow Walk - increase recharge to 45s OR increase energy cost to 10e.

Dervish

*Wounding Strike - increase energy cost to 10e.
*Rending Touch - Spell. You and target touched foe lose 1 Enchantment. If you do not lose an enchantment you lose an additional 5e.

Elementalist

*Savannah Heat - increase energy cost to 15e.

Mesmer

*Energy Surge - increase energy lost to 3...9 decrease damage done to 8 per energy lost.
*Energy Burn - increase energy lost to 3...9 decrease damage done to 8 per energy lost.
*Hex Breaker - revert to stance.
*Frustration - affects paragon shouts/chants including damage done if these are interrupted. (Stole this great idea from OP)

Monk

*Divine Healing/Heaven's Delight - increase healing by 10 points OR reduce recharge to 10s/12s.

Necromancer

*Rend Enchantments - revert to 2s cast time, increase recharge to 30s.
*Rigor Mortis - revert to 2s cast time, increase recharge to 30s.

Paragon

*Angelic Protection - is now a chant with 2s activation time, reduce recharge to 20s.
*Hexbreaker Aria - For 10 seconds, the next time each ally within earshot casts a spell or uses an attack skill that ally loses 1 Hex.

Ranger

*Escape - stance ends if you hit with a melee attack.
*Glass Arrows - increase cost to 10e.

Ritualist

*Vital Weapon - increase recharge to 10s.

Warrior

*''Shields Up!'' - reduce recharge to 20s, only affects party members who have a shield equipped.

I believe reactionary balance updates is the only type of update that can work with GW, especially if you take into account the vast amount of skills out there and the unfortunate fact that they were recklessly managed as a whole. GvG has benefited from this style of balancing, it only took such a long time for problematic things to be dealt with after Factions, Nightfall and Eotn. If you assume that balance is achieved in GvG by the eventual elimination of problem skills/mechanics then you can extend that to HA. Maybe for HA it will just take that much longer before reactionary balance updates are no longer needed. We will never know what GW could have been if these balance issues hadnt taken so long to resolve.

The argument that there will always be gimmick only holds true as long as there are skill synergies to form those gimmicks (and of course on your definition of what a gimmick is). I believe HA meta is as close as ever to being free from dominant gimmicks (my definition of gimmick is a highly popular build that revolves around powerful broken synergies run by your average nameless pug). A utopic belief it may be, but one that takes faith from what has happened to GvG.

Possible remaining gimmicks (some of which wont be that hard to deal with at all but still might be popular simply due to buttonmash potential).

1) icy veins/soul barbs spike - easy to beat
2) bloodspike - very fragile, has recieved many nerfs over the years
3) searing flames spike - not as powerful as it used to be
4) paragon spike - not as powerful as it used to be by a long shot
5) rit spike - not nearly as powerful as it used to be
6) RaO/OoA shitway - has recieved a significant range of nerfs over time.
7) rangerspike - with the slight changes suggested above average/good teams should be able to beat your average rspike (the changes arent that significant but helpful), highly experienced rspikes might remain successful but i dont see this as a problem at all they should be rewarded for practicing a build with that much dedication.

If anyone can think of a potential gimmick build that might become popular please say so... i may be missing something.

Monk Gsb · Apr 09, 2008, 11:05 PM // 23:05

the healing skills of the rits is not what needs nerfing/buffing. its just the bad energy manegment of the rits, so imo-

Wepon of remedy same duration / cast / recharge 5sec
if you remove a condition in this way you gain 3 energy, you gain an extra 2 energy if you are under the effect of a wepon spell.

soothing memories- same cast / cost / recharge 5 sec,
target other ally, heals for ...... you gain 3 energy if your holding a item, you gain an extra 2 energy if you are under the effect of a wepon spell.

speechless aura- same cast / energy / recharge - 15
enchantment 5...50...60 when ever whenever you cast a Spell you steal 5 ... 20 ...25 and 1...2....3 energy. from one spirt in earshot.

along that line ^^ cba to type moar.

Kyp Jade · Apr 09, 2008, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Hex Breaker. see ether renewal
Aura of Stability. See Grenths Aura

Song of Conc. Remove recharge, change to 2..6 second duration
Forked/Dual Arrows, single arrow if hex, enchantment, or weapon spell
Rend Enchantment, 2s cast
Rip Enchantment, 15 recharge

Migraine is fine, frustration needs to die tho, a cover hex that is basically a copy of migraine is not something thats good for the game.
Brutal is fine, warmongers needs to die.

The entire line of sin pre-buffs that make A/W or A/D playable needs to die, sins are meant to be sins, not warriors or dervishes.

Expertise needs to be adjusted to ranger skills only, rangers should be rangers, not dervishes/warriors.

Secondaries are there for utility and synergy, not so that you can abuse another proffesions primary attribute.

hurric · Apr 10, 2008, 12:09 AM // 00:09

the entire spawning power attribute line should be buffed to be viable/worth using. Right now it's 99.9% useless (1 sec extra on weapon spells yay).
N/Rts with icy vain do as much heal as rits with better e-management and spike with icy vains. it's a little messed up. They never buff spawning power and it's always been crap.
just my opinion though.

Titine · Apr 10, 2008, 08:42 AM // 08:42

I have a lot of suggestion, here we go ...

Assassin
Assassin's Remedy : lower recharge to 10 sec. For 30 seconds, you loose one condition each time you land a critical hit. (shouldn't be immune to blind or weakness)
Shattering Assault : increase recharge to 6 sec
Add an aftercast on all shadowsteps

Dervish
Wounding Strike : increase recharge to 6 sec
Rending touch : increase recharge to 12 sec

Elementalist
Savanah heat : increase energy cost to 10 (as suggested by the OP)

Mesmer
migraine and frustration work on chant (OP)
increase E-denial (lorekeeper suggestion)

Monk
Light of delivrance : revert to initial effect, perhaps 1 or 2 sec more in recharge
Healer's Boon : increase recharge to 15 sec
Spell breaker : reduce energy cost to 10, reduce recharge to 15 sec, reduce duration to 1..5 sec. reduce casting time to 1/2 sec. (It is now too easily removed, this needs a buff)
Peace and harmony : +2 energy regen
Withdraw Hexes : lower energy cost to 10
Healing Burst : increase range to area
Ray of Judgment : lower recharge to 20 sec

Necromancer
Icy veins : move to death attribute
Defile defenses : lower damage

Parangon
"Can't Touch This!" : target self or other ally
"Incoming!" : increase duration to 1..4
"Make Haste!" : increase recharge to 15 sec
Soldier's Fury : reapply when a chant or shout end
Energizing Finale : gain 2 energy when a shout or chant end
Aggressive Refrain : reduce duration a little bit (should be harder to maintain)

Ranger
Escape : lower recharge to 10 sec. Ends on attack.
Forked Arrow : increase recharge to 10 sec.

Ritualist
For each rank of Spawning Power you have, creatures you create (or animate) will have 5% more Health and weapon spells you cast last 3% longer.

Warrior
"Charge!" : lower recharge to 15 sec
"Victory is Mine!" : lower recharge to 10 sec

ghostlyfenix · Apr 10, 2008, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Escape: isnt too bad to be honest, but if u nerf it r/d will just revert back to thumpers. i say just make it increase energy to 10

Forked Arrow: alrdy very conditional, ok as it is.

rend enchants: casting needs to be 2 sec definately

hex breaker: back to stance

and do something to shadow step

Ciric · Apr 10, 2008, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

rend enchants: casting needs to be 2 sec definately

Rend enchantments is a decent removal that allows for punishing monks for over proting targets, and it is a counter for a/d. The miss use of rend makes it far inferior to many other enchant removals because it has no bonus besides the removal, only a disadvantage due to health loss. If it were an IMBA removal every mesmer and necro would take it in HoH and builds would be at a disadvantage without it, this is clearly not the case because many mesmers still run me/rt for flesh. It is a good skill, but imba, no. If any nerf would eb done to it require a higher amount in curses to strip 5+ enchants to keep it from mesmer abuse while keeping it a reasonable casting time for primary necros.

Quote:

hex breaker: back to stance

most people running hexbreak run no otehr stances, so this change is totaly pointless. nor does it need a nerf.

Quote:

Wounding Strike : increase recharge to 6 sec

the skill is not used on recharge for a/d spike, not only that but a/d spike is easy to prot witht eh exception of the tele spikes (those require a good prot to catch) Wounding isn't the problem anyway, its the mass crit hits.

Quote:

Rending touch : increase recharge to 12 sec

Rending is not what makes escape way broken, its the fact that rending cost them 1 nrg. There are SEVERAL ways to nerf escape way, rending is not one of them considering it hurts many other forms of play, rending is great, and balanced on wars and some sin. Nerf expertice or nerf escape.

Quote:

Shattering Assault : increase recharge to 6 sec
Add an aftercast on all shadowsteps

seriously? just snare /warding the target, shattering assult sins are not popular and do not need nerfs at all.

Quote:

Assassin's Remedy : lower recharge to 10 sec. For 30 seconds, you loose one condition each time you land a critical hit. (shouldn't be immune to blind or weakness)

A decent sugestion, makes it work on primary sins and non dager wielding sins, AND it keeps you able to blind a/d spike. however i think the best nerf to this would be to make it work only with daggers, problem solved.

Quote:

Savanah heat : increase energy cost to 10 (as suggested by the OP)

Savanah is not IMBA, if a team has mroe AOE then u on cap points, split them, some builds are made for camping the alter, others are for splitting, decide what ur build is and play acordingly.

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Defile defenses : lower damage

its a 1 hit effect, and most hexers do not have the nrg to spam it enough, + it is not used enough to warent a nerf.

Quote:

Escape : lower recharge to 10 sec. Ends on attack.

End on MELE attack plz, and do not lower recharge.

Quote:

For each rank of Spawning Power you have, creatures you create (or animate) will have 5% more Health and weapon spells you cast last 3% longer.

i agree is needs a buff, to what degree is arguable, good start though.

Quote:

"Charge!" : lower recharge to 15 sec
"Victory is Mine!" : lower recharge to 10 sec

neither needs to be buffed, neither will see play in HA even with buffs.

Quote:

"Make Haste!" : increase recharge to 15 sec

make haste is not imba, its in the build for 3 maps, and helps on cap point(any speed buff does) if anything change how it goes up in length to require 9+ to get a decent length, keep under 9 at about 10-12 so it is useiable, but if u get a snare then you can't amk it to alter without another make haste (then slowing the second runner because his make haste will be late)

Quote:

Aggressive Refrain : reduce duration a little bit (should be harder to maintain)

It was already nerfed enough with the cracked armor it is not imba but it is a paragons only real option for a IAS, other IAS need to be buffed, not aggressive nerfed.

Quote:

Add an aftercast on all shadowsteps

realy? why, because one a/d eludes your bad prot every 30seconds. shadowsteps should not be touched, the IMBA ones were nerfed long ago (see shaow prisum), shadow step allows bad players to get clean spikes off against mediocore prots, however its useless against good prots.

Quote:

Healer's Boon : increase recharge to 15 sec

NO! realy no, its only used in HA because there are almost no other monk options that have decent party healing for dealing with pressure. Hboon is bad, its y r/d works (constant rend on hboon yeye) and it is easy to shutdown, shatter boon anyone? Again, this isn't an IMBA skill, ever other monk with party heal just doesn't fit into HA.

Quote:

migraine and frustration work on chant (OP)

agree, nothing mroe to say.

Quote:

RANDOM OTHER NERFS THAT I DON'T CARE TO READ

The op's sugestiong were pretty bad, Blackout as a non touch.. IMBA!, weapon of warding nerf.. why? because you don't know how to target swap vr n/rts? Random mesmer e-denial buffs.. wow GG for GvG, please think about what you say before you post and how it effects all aspects of this game(besides pve)

Riotgear · Apr 10, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

If you're sick of Escape on R/D's you could try posting on Izzy's talk page. I could use some help fending off the rubberstamped responses. Already got "lameway's fine" and "zomg it'll be worse than Natural Stride" as if we give a shit about Escape being a viable elite.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_.../Ranger/Escape

Ciric · Apr 10, 2008, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Ok, my turn

Assassin
Assassin's Remedy: Enchantment Spell. For 30 seconds, the next 1...8 dagger attack skills you use remove one condition.

Way of the Master: Enchantment Spell. For 60 seconds, while holding a non-dagger weapon, you have an additional 3...27% chance to land a critical hit. E:10 C:3/4 R:60

Ranger
Escape:Elite Stance. For 1...7 seconds, you move 33% faster and have a 75% chance to block attacks. This stances end if you successfully hit with a mele attack.

Expertice:"For each rank of Expertise, the Energy cost of all of your attacks, Rituals, and Rangers skills are decreased by 4%. Several skills, especially those related to Energy costs and skill recharge times, become more effective with higher Expertise." (took out touch skills)

Paragon
Song of Concentration:Chant. For 8 seconds, the next 1...3 interupts used on every ally useing a skill within earshot do not interupt. (i was going to say fail, but that would imply no recharge on interupts used.)

This nerf takes alittle explination. Song of conc is not just a good skill, but it has become that in halls it is a skill that your team HAS to have to cap, and with many single profession builds it is not hard to drop a res sig on a char and take song. This nerf to song would make it more viable in standard play makeing your whole team uninterruptible on posiably more than one skill. Also for claim rescorce it would alow teams with more interupts to be able to cordinate and go threw a song. Also teams that choose to take song on a non-para char will be forced to put 10 or 11 into command in order to get 3 interupts, so it helps push more paras back into the meta and less ?/p. It would still take 3-4 interupts to go threw a song, on courtyard that wouldn't be very hard, but in halls have 4 hard interupts would make this quite hard to do, but still possiable (ex. Cry, then PD,and 2 war interupts). Again it could be lowered even to a max of 3 after 12in command.

thats it for now, ill add some buffs and a few more nerfs when i get time.

Riotgear · Apr 10, 2008, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciric

Expertice:"For each rank of Expertise, the Energy cost of all of your attacks, Rituals, and Rangers skills are decreased by 4%. Several skills, especially those related to Energy costs and skill recharge times, become more effective with higher Expertise." (took out touch skills)

Could be non-spell touches, which would leave Grapple, Plague Touch, and Blackout viable for whatever that's worth. And touch rangers, for whoever gives a shit about those.

Turbobusa · Apr 10, 2008, 07:07 PM // 19:07

I don't see why we should nerf assassin's remedy to dagger only when we could only make it only trigger if you hit.
This way it wouldn't be a [email protected] skill.

Horace The Great · Apr 10, 2008, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciric

Blackout as a non touch.. IMBA!

I never said, when it is a spell you don't have to touch. I mean: spell+touch, so it is "easier" to counter with interupts.

tortugan · Apr 10, 2008, 07:54 PM // 19:54

I heavily disagree with Shattering Assault, since it isn't overpowered in any way. ok it deals 15-45 or so extra damage, but you mustn't forget that it's not armor ignoring and thus deals less damage with higher armor. furthermore you shouldn't forget the energy price is already pretty high, so changing the recharge to 6 seconds won't change anything, it's fine at 4.

I agree, you will be able to spam it, but you'll have to sacrifice a skill slot in order to be able to get the necessary energy in 4 seconds to be able to spam the chain, upping the chain to 6 seconds only gives you 6 seconds to do that.

The skill is fine as it is, it's not getting overused nor is it amazingly overpowered.

supa tim · Apr 10, 2008, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghostlyfenix

Escape: isnt too bad to be honest, but if u nerf it r/d will just revert back to thumpers. i say just make it increase energy to 10

you must be joking right? thumpway was so much more balanced than R/D.

i was glad thumpway excisted coz with normal balanced u could easily pwn them...

DreamWind · Apr 11, 2008, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by supa tim

you must be joking right? thumpway was so much more balanced than R/D.

i was glad thumpway excisted coz with normal balanced u could easily pwn them...

I can say with full confidence that if your balanced team can't beat sway, your team is bad. Sway is far worse than iway ever was (or any other HA gimmick). Thats why I suggest leaving it strictly for pug purposes.

the kurzick eater · Apr 11, 2008, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

Mystic sandstorm: It's not that good of a skill, why nerf it? requires a hell load of enchants that gimp your bar to be worth taking. Honestly I haven't see any spike with it, but i'm not playing much these days.

Hex breaker: either one of the other, not the two. That's a good skill, killing it just kills the gameplay.

Icy veins: nerf is nearly unsignificant, doesn't change that its only use will still be in soul reaping abuses builds. I'd prefer it to be moved to DM.

Ranger and paragons nerfed: clearly Rspike related. If you nerf all the skills to have a bigger recharge, increasing the cost of glass arrows will have no real effect since they'll spam their skill less often anyway. Also, while they'll spike a bit less, they'll still hit HARD.

Parasitic bond could be nerf, but I'd only nerf the recharge.

Ancestor's rage nerf is meaningless.

Weapon of remedy. Nerf recharge if you want, or tone down life steal, but increased casting time make it suck, even with 1 sec recharge

WoW: nerfed too hard

Ritualist restoration magic skills in general: I don't see what's wrong with them, apart from being used by necros.

WOW it seems like your out to get him or something... i cant believe you dont agree with ONE SINGLE THING he has to say. in fact, all you've posted was epeen negativity in this thread. GG.

Kyp Jade · Apr 11, 2008, 01:37 PM // 13:37

the current incarnation of sway forces so many achetypes of balanced out of the meta. Things like condition pressure cannot exist while sway is in the meta.

kranius · Apr 11, 2008, 01:51 PM // 13:51

blindbot + blurred > sway oO (and many things else btw)

DreamWind · Apr 11, 2008, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

the current incarnation of sway forces so many achetypes of balanced out of the meta. Things like condition pressure cannot exist while sway is in the meta.

Could you elaborate on this?

apoggy · Apr 11, 2008, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Could you elaborate on this?

2 copies of Mend Body and Soul (non-Elite RC with unconditional heal in Sway) + Recuperation + Recovery > Condition Degen Build

Edit: forgot to add Sways are now starting to carry Pure Was Li Ming as well, gg.